Gazette photo by Chris Dorst
If the coal industry’s goal at tonight’s Army Corps of Engineers public hearing was for no one else to get a word in … well, it pretty much worked.
Hundreds of people turned out here in Charleston — the auditorium at the civic center seats nearly 740 and was overflowing — for one of six hearings on the Obama administration’s proposal to end the use of a streamlined permitting review process for mountaintop removal mining.
The crowd was overwhelmingly pro-coal, and even the few mountaintop removal opponents who did show up either decided not to battle the booing and shouting or couldn’t be heard when they did try to speak.
One coal industry publicist I talked to explained it all away by saying the miners are understandably full of emotion about the prospect of losing their jobs. Another coal official, Gene Kitts of International Coal Group, was actually tweeting tonight that the environmentalists were “baiting the pro coal audience” into the yelling and jeering.
We’ll have a complete news story on the hearing in tomorrow’s Gazette and later tonight on our Web site.
UPDATED: Here’s today’s Gazette news story.
Until then, tonight’s hearing — and the Corps of Engineers refusal to even really try to control the crowd so everyone got their say — reminded me a lot of a mountaintop removal hearing I went to about five years ago … Here’s a little of what I wrote about it at the time:
Janet Fout thought strip mine regulators should hear the sounds of frogs and birds whose homes could be damaged by mountaintop removal mining.
So, at a public hearing on proposed changes to a key stream protection rule, Fout tried to play a tape of spring peepers and wood thrushes.
“I’m speaking for life,” said Fout, a Huntington environmental activist. “We will all miss the birds and the frogs and the fish.”
U.S. Office of Surface Mining officials weren’t interested.
“I’m not going to listen to that for five minutes,” said OSM’s Tom Morgan, referring to the allotted time for each speaker.
“What relevance does that have to the stream buffer zone rule?” Morgan said. “We are not here to hear animal calls or bird calls.”
Fout continued to play the tape. She said that scientific studies have found mountaintop removal is harming bird and other animal habitat.
A uniformed Charleston police officer — one of two posted inside the hearing — walked to the front of the room and exchanged whispers with Morgan.
Then, the officer walked over to the podium and whispered to Fout. When she still didn’t stop the tape, the officer shut off the microphone. He appeared at one point to be trying to confiscate the tape player or at least turn it off.
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You jump on the miners for not allowing everyone to have their say. Why didn’t you jump on the tree sitters and the other civil disobediance folks for keeping folks from working?
Fout continued to play the tape. She said that scientific studies have found mountaintop removal is harming bird and other animal habitat.
can’t the same be said in other areas.construction of new homes shopping centers and even roads have done the same for years,but that is what they call progress.the coal mines haven’t been the one to cause animal extinction,or habitats to be destroyed and cause animals to be put on the endangered species lists.but you don’t hear that included on this.
This was supposed to be a hearing not a rally. This behavior was unacceptable at any hearing. Can you imagine a judge allowing this at a hearing in a court of law? The same rules should be followed at hearings that the federal government holds. There should have been order so that EVERYONE from both sides could air their comments in an orderly fashion. If the miners had something to say, by all means they should have had their turn as well as the people on the other side. This whole thing was a shameful example of how far our nation of laws has fallen.
rwc are you saying that coal mining hasn’t destroyed habitats?
In today’s world, information and opinions can be conveyed better online than in person — spending hours and dollars for five minutes of comment while others are screaming is absurd.
October 14, 2009
http://media-newswire.com/release_1102655.html
(Excerpt)
U.S. Senator James Inhofe ( R-Okla. ), Ranking Member of the Senate Environment and Public Works Committee, today praised the Army Corps of Engineers for conducting public hearings in six states on the proposed suspension and mediation of Nationwide Permit 21, a federal permit that enables responsible coal production. Rebeckah Adcock, Minority Counsel on the Senate Environment and Public Works Minority staff, is in Kentucky today to present public comments on behalf of Sen. Inhofe.
“I am pleased the Army Corps of Engineers responded to my request for openness and transparency by holding additional hearings on the proposed suspension of an essential national coal mining permit,” Senator Inhofe said. “These hearings will be held across Appalachia, a region of the country where coal jobs sustain the livelihoods of small communities. It is critical that the Corps hear directly from those who will be impacted by federal policies. I hope the discussion leads to a result that appropriately balances environmental protection with the concern for maintaining and creating jobs and growing local economies throughout Appalachia.”
It was embarrassing the way people were acting at the hearings last night! In Kentucky, we actually had a miner have to stand up and tell his fellow pro-coal folks to be respectful and let people talk! For all the going-on about how great this hearing was to let the people be heard and freedom of speech, the pro-coal folks didn’t seem to want to practice what they preached. They should be ashamed of themselves.
I heard Public Radio’s report on the hearing this morning. If police and/or security were present, it is appalling that the Corps did not ask them to keep order.
Ken, you’ve had the most fact-based coverage I’ve thusfar seen of last night’s so-called “public hearing.”
I think it was Judge Learned Hand who once wrote (and I’m paraphrasing) that the remedy to bad speech is not to silence the bad speech, but to add more speech to counter it. His words were wise when he wrote them and their relevance continues to the present day.
What we see in the conduct of the supporters of the continued destruction of Appalachian hills, streams and communities is their own tacit admission that they cannot compete in this marketplace of ideas Judge Hand envisioned. They know what they do is bad for West Virginia and future generations of West Virginians, and so are reduced to justifying it by saying “I’m paid well to do it,” and then attempting to shout down the reasoned discourse that would put the lie to all their attempted self-justification.
In doing this, the people who sacrifice their fellow citizens, their communities, the land and a safe place to live, all for their own paychecks, admit that their actions have become wholly self-centered and that they actually don’t care about their extended families, neighbors, communities or society as a whole as long as they get a “good paycheck.”
Their conduct is symptomatic of a broken culture and broken spirits. They are farmers reduced to eating their seed-stock; grasshoppers eating the summer’s fruits with no thought for the coming hard winter, and the whole panoply of human cultural evolution and history points broadly toward the destruction they fashion for not only themselves, but for their families and their progeny. Of course, it is not “environmentalists” who are bringing that destruction. It is, locally, the finite nature of coal and the increasing scarcity of it. It is, broadly, the harm wrought by coal’s combustion upon an increasingly fragile eco-system that just happens to include human life on Planet Earth.
Finally, the reports of law enforecement’s disinterest in protecting those who were threatened with mob violence by the coal people is nothing short of shameful.
It is time the federal government became involved in this tense situation. It’s clear from last night that the governor of this state has no interest in protecting ALL of the citizens. As such, the necessity for federal action has been triggered every bit as much as it was when George Wallace refused to safeguard the civil rights of all the citizens of Alabama.
The Civil Rights Division of the U.S. Department of Justice should investigate and the FBI and Federal Marshalls should mobilize to protect if our state and local governments are unwilling to do so.
It would seem that our state and local governments are not willing to do so. When you think that Chafin was one of the leaders of that raucous mob it gives pretty clear indication of where our officials stand on this issue.
I too think that the FBI and the Justice Dept should come in here and take a good hard look at our state government and how the coal industry influences our political and legal processes in the state and local levels.
This comment is in regards to the shopping malls/superdevelopment being done all over the region-
Many of us are fighting that, too. We’re trying to do our part.
For the argument to be centered around the fact that people are destroying land at rapid rates in urban areas so removing mountains and irrevocably destroying the land people depend on does not justify either. Both are squandering the very thing we need to survive- land, water, trees, clean air, places to grow food and live our lives. Both should be challenged and taken head on. But to suggest that rapid over-development other places makes annihalting Appalachia okay is insane.
The majority of the problems here stem from the idea that all Americans should have cheap junk to replace last year’s cheap junk and that the more cheap junk we have the better our lives would be. For mountains to be decimated just so someone can watch the 700 Club in a tank top in a 4000 square foot house in the wintertime is ridiculous and absurd.
We need to go back to living small and living within our means- something we’ve known how to do in Appalachia for centuries.
Mr Kincaid, with all due respect, I find your statement
“Their conduct is symptomatic of a broken culture and broken spirits.”
very judgmental and unfair, even though I agree with much of the rest of your post.
Appalachian culture, or coalfield culture is not broken any more than mainstream american culture is broken. I’d say the burden of mainstream America is about to split Appalachia in two. In lots of different ways, Appalachia has had to carry the weight of American consumption, consumerism, and criticism while providing the raw materials with little benefits to residents other than the few with industrial jobs. There are tons of examples of this- but message boards aren’t the place to go into all of that.
I’m in this movement to stand up against injustice. I think your statement is unjust. And it’s very important, I think, to recognize that mountain folks have been hit hard, time and time again with little time for recovery.
I’d challenge your statement of a “broken culture” even further to say that the very thing that makes Appalachian cultures unique is the common thread of resiliency and willingness to take a stand for their own even when the stakes are really high.
I admire and respect this about my Appalachian heritage and my neighbors. However, it makes this fight a lot harder because Appalachia is full of people ready to defend their way of life…
There were a lot of mean and rough looking fellows last night in Pikeville, but all miners aren’t mean and rough and there are some things about Appalachian culture that are unique or different than what many people are comfortable with but that doesn’t make it broken.
So though I stand with you about ending mountain top removal, lets refrain from the cheap shots and make our points with full integrity and respect of the people caught in the cross-hairs in this battle.
And for my pro-coal neighbors, please understand that we do not all speak with one voice and many of us are willing to work together to find solutions once the industry finishes taking away jobs. The coal industry has done more damage to the economy of the coalfields by replacing miners with mechanization and abusing miners for political game than any environmentalist ever could.
[...] public hearings on the specifics of following the laws for mountaintop removal permits into a shouting match and general mayhem. On the heels of a violent summer in the coalfields, last night’s [...]
To Mr. Kincaid and the rest of this message board: I’ll eat a little crow-
I apologize for calling your statement a “cheap shot.” I know that you have fought hard for your home and I really appreciate your sustained efforts. I hope that my remark wasn’t too offensive to you. I’m like the rest of us, I suppose, torn between defending Appalachia and still confronting Appalachian people or cultural aspects that we don’t like or that impede real resolution.
I’ve since reflected on what you said about
“their conduct is symptomatic of a broken culture and broken spirits” and think I would word what I said differently. It’s so problematic to call a culture “broken,” especially a culture like Appalachian culture(s). I guess my knee jerk reaction is to see that as demeaning the culture, diminishing who and what people are that live in the region because they don’t agree with us. But I thought about it more and think to some degree I understand. There are drugs, social ills, and mean people here just like everywhere else- all symptoms of a broken culture. But there are also so many amazing people who continue the culture of their foreparents that include the love of land, sense of place and fiery independence, and the love of children. Much of the music and some wonderful speech patterns that could once be found here in abundance are relegated to old field recordings. And yet, folks in these mountains are still some of the best there are anywhere.
I would just substitute “broken system” for broken culture in your statement and then I would agree.
If the tone of my kneejerk response didn’t give you the respect you deserve, I apologize. You’ve been a strong and constant voice in this struggle and one I admire.
I guess it’s the ole scots-irish genes that look for a fight when there isn’t one…
Peace.
In my case, it would have been better had I specified WHICH culture I think is broken. In this case, it is the self-reliant, self-sustaining culture that made nine or more generations of my family viable in Appalachia. It has been broken by an influx of external “culture” via television, other mass media, and the demand that we change our lifeways to suit some other vision of what “modern” life should be.
It’s also a broken labor culture. I feel confident in asserting that my grandfather and great-grandfather didn’t struggle to create the UMWA so some guy driving a D9 Cat could put a sticker on the rear windshield of his truck and call himself a miner. The UMWA has completely lost its way and abandoned the community-oriented culture that gave it its birth.
Moreover, when the mountains go, there’s no mountain culture, so I’d suggest that renders it broken, as well. Have you ever seen an Appalachian person who’s had to live out in the flat world when they get to come “home?” Their eyes light up, their step becomes a little lighter and sometimes, as my mother would do, they being singing “O, the hills, the beautiful hills . . . ”
So while I didn’t intend it as a slur, I still submit that Mountaintop Removal has contributed broadly to a diminution of our mountain culture and tried to replace it with a WalMart culture of rampant consumerism, cheap Chinese goods and an a reliance on others in place of ourselves.
Bob when you put it that way I have to agree with you, although I was rather sympathetic to the former poster’s comment.
Mr Kincaid, I think what you are referring to is called Progress. The advancement of the human race. We may be advancing to our destruction, but its in our nature to destory ourselves.
Well said, Mr. Kincaid, and I concur. I would agree with you about the replacement culture 100%.
It’s almost like the representation in the coalfields think that they have to physically remove the mountains from their area, from their speech, and from their heart and soul in order to feel they are just like any other American…like they can be proud “contributors” to this consumerism-based terminal cancer that is American mainstream culture.
It is so sad and frustrating what is happening here in eastern KY and other parts of the Appalachian coalfields.
America was built on majority rule. As we saw from the turnout, the 30 or so anticoal people in the crowd of 750 were not the majority by any means. I would suggest that fraction of coal supporters vs. anticoal supporters would be fairly representative of the WV population. Yet somehow, the minority has a greater voice in the media and in the political arena. Why is that? You might suggest the miners were out of line. I would suggest our clear majority made sure we were heard when we were left to represent ourselves. That’s the way it should be in America.
So we were a little loud. The majority ruled. That’s the way it should be in America. We needed to make our stand and I hope we continue to do so. Why can you stand up for your beliefs and opinions and we can’t? Why can’t we have a little civil disobedience when you have been doing it for years?
If we should be ashamed of ourselves for standing up for what we believe in and making a point, then so should you.
[...] public hearings on the specifics of following the laws for mountaintop removal permits into a shouting match and general mayhem. On the heels of a violent summer in the coalfields, last night’s shouting [...]
Again, this was a hearing not a rally. Coal4America, from what I have read the numbers of pro coal folks there were so large because many of them were bussed in for the hearing. That being said I don’t believe that the numbers were a true representation of the support of the average West Virginian.
Even with those large numbers this was not a teabaggers gala like the ones we saw about the healthcare issue. We know that many of those folks were bussed in to disrupt those meetings as well. This was not a town hall meeting. This was a federal hearing, and as such should have had order and each person should have been heard no matter which side of the issue they wanted to talk about.
What is so hard about this issue that you all can’t or won’t understand?
… Since when do your people follow rules? And you expect us to live up to a standard that you won’t?
Civil Disobedience – Turnabout is fairplay.
So what is it you don’t understand ?
Coal4America,
The difference is in the meaning of the word “civil,” http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/civil.
In this case, the definition that applies is “adequate in courtesy and politeness.”
There’s really no question that the folks who stood up and yelled and screamed to drown out people they disagree with were not polite.
Thank you Ken
Coal is not for my America
I said civil disobedience, not just civil, which is defined as…
Main Entry: civil disobedience
Function: noun
Date: 1866
: Refusal to obey governmental demands or commands especially as a “nonviolent and usually collective means of forcing concessions from the government.”
Distortion of people’s words to fit your needs is another form of lying, Ken Ward.
You can’t reason with unreasonable people. I’m out.
After watching the “you tube” – audio and video (outside) of the hearing I would say that the miners did not help their cause with their behavior. In fact, America now has a much better view of how “coal corrupts”. It would seem that they do not “choose” to understand the difference. Sitting down in a road, chaining ones self to the DEP is much different than following an outspoken resident out of the hearing and pushing her or slapping another activist.
Ms Bonds, the miners will help their cause by voting. If that hearing was election day, your mountian party would have lost by a landslide.
Scott-You might be right but just here in southern West Virginia. Fortunately we are all Americans and America is not controlled by the coal industry like West Virginia is.
Let me point out that the corrupt leaders and uneducated voters in 1963 Mississippi had the same thoughts and attitude about the civil rights movement too. They soon found out that injustice, violence and bullying was not tolerated by Americans. I think we should join together and demand that our leaders bring a diversified economy and safe, clean jobs to West Virginia before it is too late.
[...] was mostly devoid of the disrespect and intimidation that arose during public demonstrations and hearings in [...]
[...] This photo is getting some attention from some of Massey Energy President Don Blankenship’s buddies (his former political consultants) over at the West Virginia Red blog after last night’s Army Corps of Engineers mountaintop removal public hearing. [...]
[...] after 10 years, we’re all back where we started … yelling at each other, with no end to the battle in sight. You have to wonder what would have happened if West Virginia [...]
[...] that last October, hundreds of coal miners and their families shouted, chanted and jeered every time anyone on the other side of the issue tried to speak at a hearing [...]
[...] will recall that the Corps’ proposal to do away with what it calls Nationwide Permit 21 was the subject of that nasty public hearing last October here in Charleston. We had more detailed information about what was really at issue [...]